Thanks for the link. I am a member of Unison and have been most of my working life ... I've just applied to join the L&G section ... the online form is interesting. It indicates required fields, but then allows you to submit without all the information, so we shall see what happens. I couldn't find my membership card, so typed "not known" in the appropriate field and fully expected the form to be rejected, but no, it seems to have gone OK. Ho hum ...